Welcome to Mr. Ingram's Blog. This site is dedicated to the discussion of various novels and assigned readings. Although it will be primarily used by Mr. Ingram's English 3 AP English class to determine the participation portion of their 9wks' average, anyone who stumbles across it may contribute to the discussion. The more the merrier.
Monday, February 23, 2009
The Chosen - Ch.1 - The Game
Let's discuss the baseball/softball game. What is it's significance? Was it symbolic? Did Potok's description of it add or detract to its overall effect? What, if anything, did you learn about the characters and/or setting through the game?
The baseball game is being compared to a war. The game itself becomes a sort of "holy war." it symbolizes World War II. His descriptions added to the over all effectiveness of the chapter by using militaristic words to show the comparison between the softball game and the war. Davey Cantor is negative and doesn't have any hope for his team, the coach is rather positive and wants his team to win he believes in them and wants them to win. Reuven cares for his team and wants to win.
the significance of the game was that it symbolized what was going on; a war. Potok's description, i think, added to the overall effect because without that there would be no imagery for me or i would have no sense of the competitiveness of the war.
the significance of the game was that it symbolized what was going on; a war. Potok's description, i think, added to the overall effect because without that there would be no imagery for me or i would have no sense of the competitiveness of the war.
Well, first of all, the other team is very mean. The baseball game symbolizes war. They obviously don't like each other and that Danny Saunders is a horrible kid. It was like a "holy war" to see who was better. to me that is what it symbolized. You can tell the other team was rich and they played well, and everyone liked them. and also the rabbi, their coach, was the worst. he had a sorry attitude. he was very mean to mr. galanter and he was very demanding, and everytime danny saunders would hit, he would smile and look back at his book. So far i'm really starting to like the book, it seems very interesting. plus there were alot of pages on ch. 1 (i didn't like that!).
I have to agree with everyone else. It signifies war. The other team was actually very smart about how they played [ game; asking for the five minutes to "practice" before the game started, to give a kind of "preview" of what to expect. It was really just to make Rueven's team underestimate them, i think. That is a very tactical move. I guess you could call it a holy war since Danny's team thought that Reuven and his team was immoral and all that mumbo-jumbo. The descriptions that Potok used to describe this "war" was very effective and they added to the overall sense of the rivalry between the two teams and in extension the different sects of Jewish religion. The setting, I believe, is in Boston. (yay, or nay?) Now I have a question for someone (anyone), Why are they in such a rivalry, if they are still part of the same religion.
i mainly agree with jackie about how the "softball game" they play softball, is being compared to a war. but more specifically, a holy war. what added to the story was how the coach would always relate everything to war or sometype of military tactic or phrase. more importanly, i like how the coach believes in his team and how the main character, forgot his name. "the one that makes that incredible catch" doesn't believe what his teamate keeps saying how the other team is "wild." i somewhat like the book. It's a little weird and honestly, i extremely hate softball and baseball but hopefully it will turn out to be alright.
I have to say that this chapter did bring out some really important points that will be very useful for this story in the future as we continue reading. Of course the characters, Danny Saunders and Reuven Malter, play on opposing baseball teams that really don't seem to have that much interest in each other. This baseball game definately symbolized a war, because of the way that the game was being played and the fact that the coach for Reuven's team did use alot war comparisons. I did not like the rabbi coach very much, I thought he was very arrogant and rude, just like his team. But I did really have a liking toward Reuven's coachm and the attitude that he was showing towards his team. Potok probably gave such an imagery like this because he wanted to create a depth about these two boys and how different they are, and that their differences, not just in baseball, but life is what really brings them together as close freinds. I have a good feeling that I will enjoy this book alot, and can't wait to start reading the next chapter and having a discussion on it.
The baseball game was very symbolic, and as I see looking at everyone else’s answers, they agree that the baseball game symbolizes war. Now it is not very hard to realize that it symbolizes war when the whole time the coach is using crazy @$$ metaphors and similes and whatnots. The game is very significant because I think it gave Potok an easy way to introduce all of the characters in the story. Personally, I think Potok did a phenomenal job at describing the story and it in no way detracted the overall effect. When describing all of the characters and the plays in the baseball game he made it possible for me to see these kids playing baseball and the sweat rolling down Reuven’s face. I felt the pain in his hand and pictured him sitting there with a big ol’ welt on his forehead, lulz. Potok sets things up perfectly, for example how the other team asks for a five minute warm-up just to play poorly to make Reuven’s team think they have it in the bag. But while reading this you already have a feeling that the other team is just tricking them, and they of course will be amazing players. As of now I have learned small details about the characters and their setting. What I do know is that Reuven is a young Jewish boy who goes to a parochial school and seems to have a love for baseball and may possibly be the best player on his team. The next main character, known as Danny Saunders, is a very religious baseball player who lives five blocks away from Reuven yet they have never met. Danny does not like people from other schools; especially people like Reuven. Danny thinks that Reuven is an apikoros, which according to the book is “…a Jew educated in Judaism who denied basic tenets of his faith, like the existence of God, the revelation, [and] the resurrection of the dead.” Reuven was an apikoros to Danny Saunders despite his belief in God and Torah, because he did not have side curls and attended a parochial school where too many English subjects were offered and where Jewish subjects were taught in Hebrew instead of Yiddish. We have also been introduced to a few other characters including, The Coach (Mr. Galanter), Sidney Goldberg, and Davey Cantor. The Coach is a very optimistic person who walks on the balls of his feet and constantly compares the game of baseball to war; leaving not only his players, but the readers to ponder on the question why he was never in the Army. The other two somewhat large characters we have met haven’t really given us many traits. Sidney Goldberg is one of Reuven’s good friends, but not a close friend. Sidney is the shortstop on the baseball team and is very optimistic as well. He is constantly cracking small jokes with Reuven while giving him words of encouragement to keep his head in the game. As for Davey Cantor, he is not an optimistic person, and can be looked at of course, as the opposite…pessimistic. From the start, Davey is trying to convince Reuven that the other team is a group of “murderers” and that they will for sure lose. Davey obviously has no faith in his team whatsoever, but it turns out that he was somewhat right because like he had said they were “murderers” but barely won by one point. This book seems very interesting and I wanted to keep on reading but I figured it would be best if I didn’t.
Now to answer Edwards question. "Why are they in such a rivalry, if they are still part of the same religion." I believe the book answers this question. They are in rivalry because Danny Saunders and the rest of his team believe that if you are not a full on Jew then you are an Apikoros that should burn in hell and that Reuven and the rest of his team go to a parochial school where they dont learn things in Yiddish like they should. I could say more but im pretty tired, ill discuss it tomorrow.
This chapter represents a holy war. I agree with Krazter on the both teams having their strategy when one of them had asked for 5 minutes before the practice in order to give the other team a different point of view because they wanted the other team to think they wouldn't be too much of challenge and for them to go easy on them and they could use this as a advantage. It was a very well thought out move to confuse the other team. This chapter helps us make a better understanding on how the game is truly representing a war. The chapter help us understand more of the whole rivalry that's going on and by telling us how each one is Jewish but yet still very different. Over all I believe this book has a lot more interesting details and i can't wait to find out more.
Ok...so this story takes place in Brooklyn sometime after or during WWII. The story so far details an entire baseball game in the first chapter while introducing all the characters. The narrator is Reuven. He is a Jewish boy. He's not the "traditional" type of Jewish. He's kind of got a modern twist. They don't do a lot of the traditional clothing stuff for one. The baseball team that they play is the traditional Jewish group. They wear all the right stuff & follow the Jewish law and attend the Jewish school. They're really hypocritical and mean (I agree with Ashley about them being mean). Especailly in the game. They say some pretty mean things to Reuven's team. Reuven wants to stick it to the traditional Jewish baseball team and starts to think of the game as a holy war. Reuven kind of chills out a little and reminds himself that this is just a game. Sadly the team loses the game by one point after Reuven tries to be a hero and plays with a bumed wrist. Then he drops the ball and breaks his glasses and a piece of glass gets stuck in his eye. (eww! LOL!) Thats when things started to pick up in my opinion. The end of the game up to the glass in his eye.
The book has a lot of imagery and detail while describing the characters. Can't wait to read the next chapter. Oh wait I read the 1st page of the next chapter. :)
Jack, you’re right, it does become a holy war of sorts. However, you contradict yourself when you then say it symbolizes WWII, which was not a holy war. Then you strayed off topic a bit when you began talking about how everyone wanted “to win.” I would have liked to hear more about the “holy war.” Elena, okay, without descriptions there would be no imagery… I get it… but you can apply that statement to ANY story. Specifics, specifics, specifics, and for goodness sake, stay positive! (By the way, thanks for telling me twice) Ashley, aside from the # of pages, I’m glad you liked it. It really does get more and more interesting as the story moves forward. Good call on the “holy war” but between who? No one has said whose fighting the holy war yet. Edward, finally an answer to the holy war. Now for your answer, they dislike each other because one team is made up of Hassidic Jews (very strict, VERY conservative, ultra-religious, follow the “old” ways) and the other team is more orthodox (Americanized). The Hassids dislike the Orthodox Jews because, in their eyes, they have betrayed their religion. By the way, good answer. Phillip, don’t worry, everything will be okay. Thank you for pointing out what Mr. Galanter adds to the chapter. I agree 100% with you. Katherine, that’s a good call on how Potok creates depth in his characters, as well as how their differences are going to bring them together. The complexity of their relationship is what makes this book so dynamic. I think you’re really going to like it. John, yeah, try not to read ahead. Very nice job on identifying characters and their significance to the game as a whole. You know I think you really hit on something when you pointed out Potok’s linguistic abilities. He has this almost indiscernible ability to put you in the moment. No matter how many times I read this chapter (and book), I’m amazed by the images he is able to put in my head. I mean it’s not like he’s knocking you over the head with a syntactic two by four, but the way he writes is sublime in its simplicity. What can I say about your answer, very thorough, very insightful, very good. Keep up the good work. (PS – Thanks for answering Edward’s question) Dora, I agree that the game, and this chapter, is Potok’s method for allowing those of us uneducated in the ways of Judaism to understand some of the differences that exist WITHIN the religion. Good job. TO EVERYONE, excellent work! Nice first entries. I truly hope you are enjoying the book. See ya tomorrow in class. Oh, by the way, I apologize for any typing errors… I’ve had no power for like 3 hours and it’s hard to see the keys in the dark (not to mention I’m getting squat done for my grad course because I can’t friggin see!!!) Heyyy, wait a sec, Aly showed up. First of all, stop reading. Secondly, you need to write MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
The significance was that it was to show the Americans that even though the Jewish kids did Jewish and English studies all day long that they were still just as athletic as any other American student. But they didn't play baseball! It was softball...which is a girl sport.. haha losers. It was kind of symbolic in the way of WWII and war in general. It is symbolic to this because these kids are trying to prove themselves to a whole different group of kids who do not live their lives like the Jewish kids do. It's almost a battle between two completely different worlds. His description so added to that effect because had their just been a statement saying "we played softball" there would be no significance in it at all, you would be left with too many questions. The narrarator was use to playing second base and had developed an underhand pitch. Sometimes Mr.Galanter would use Goldberg as pitcher, but only in really tight moments which leads you to believe that if they were in a rough patch, Goldberg could get them out of it.
In chapter 1 the baseball or softball game that they are playing is significant because it is symbolic of a war. But this war isn't a regular war. This is a war for racial supremacy, in this case between the die hard Jews and the slightly less fundamental Jews who are more laid back. This war of sorts alludes to WWII where the the Nazis are battling to prove their supremacy over other races. The imagery that Pokos used when describing the situation and the game was used very well. As John said, you could actually visual what was going on, it was very easy to "see" the game. Also in this chapter he introduces some very important characters, like Danny and Reuven, which at this point seem to be in direct opposition of each other. Reuven, the narrator, seems humble yet confident, and encourages his team like he doesn't just want to win. On the other hand, Danny seems cocky and overconfident as well as malicious as he tries to hit the pitchers of the other team.
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The baseball game is being compared to a war. The game itself becomes a sort of "holy war." it symbolizes World War II. His descriptions added to the over all effectiveness of the chapter by using militaristic words to show the comparison between the softball game and the war. Davey Cantor is negative and doesn't have any hope for his team, the coach is rather positive and wants his team to win he believes in them and wants them to win. Reuven cares for his team and wants to win.
the significance of the game was that it symbolized what was going on; a war. Potok's description, i think, added to the overall effect because without that there would be no imagery for me or i would have no sense of the competitiveness of the war.
BLAHHHH!
the significance of the game was that it symbolized what was going on; a war. Potok's description, i think, added to the overall effect because without that there would be no imagery for me or i would have no sense of the competitiveness of the war.
BLAHHHH!
Well, first of all, the other team is very mean. The baseball game symbolizes war. They obviously don't like each other and that Danny Saunders is a horrible kid. It was like a "holy war" to see who was better. to me that is what it symbolized. You can tell the other team was rich and they played well, and everyone liked them. and also the rabbi, their coach, was the worst. he had a sorry attitude. he was very mean to mr. galanter and he was very demanding, and everytime danny saunders would hit, he would smile and look back at his book. So far i'm really starting to like the book, it seems very interesting. plus there were alot of pages on ch. 1 (i didn't like that!).
I have to agree with everyone else. It signifies war. The other team was actually very smart about how they played [ game; asking for the five minutes to "practice" before the game started, to give a kind of "preview" of what to expect. It was really just to make Rueven's team underestimate them, i think. That is a very tactical move. I guess you could call it a holy war since Danny's team thought that Reuven and his team was immoral and all that mumbo-jumbo. The descriptions that Potok used to describe this "war" was very effective and they added to the overall sense of the rivalry between the two teams and in extension the different sects of Jewish religion. The setting, I believe, is in Boston. (yay, or nay?) Now I have a question for someone (anyone), Why are they in such a rivalry, if they are still part of the same religion.
i mainly agree with jackie about how the "softball game" they play softball, is being compared to a war. but more specifically, a holy war. what added to the story was how the coach would always relate everything to war or sometype of military tactic or phrase. more importanly, i like how the coach believes in his team and how the main character, forgot his name. "the one that makes that incredible catch" doesn't believe what his teamate keeps saying how the other team is "wild." i somewhat like the book. It's a little weird and honestly, i extremely hate softball and baseball but hopefully it will turn out to be alright.
I have to say that this chapter did bring out some really important points that will be very useful for this story in the future as we continue reading. Of course the characters, Danny Saunders and Reuven Malter, play on opposing baseball teams that really don't seem to have that much interest in each other. This baseball game definately symbolized a war, because of the way that the game was being played and the fact that the coach for Reuven's team did use alot war comparisons. I did not like the rabbi coach very much, I thought he was very arrogant and rude, just like his team. But I did really have a liking toward Reuven's coachm and the attitude that he was showing towards his team. Potok probably gave such an imagery like this because he wanted to create a depth about these two boys and how different they are, and that their differences, not just in baseball, but life is what really brings them together as close freinds. I have a good feeling that I will enjoy this book alot, and can't wait to start reading the next chapter and having a discussion on it.
The baseball game was very symbolic, and as I see looking at everyone else’s answers, they agree that the baseball game symbolizes war. Now it is not very hard to realize that it symbolizes war when the whole time the coach is using crazy @$$ metaphors and similes and whatnots. The game is very significant because I think it gave Potok an easy way to introduce all of the characters in the story. Personally, I think Potok did a phenomenal job at describing the story and it in no way detracted the overall effect. When describing all of the characters and the plays in the baseball game he made it possible for me to see these kids playing baseball and the sweat rolling down Reuven’s face. I felt the pain in his hand and pictured him sitting there with a big ol’ welt on his forehead, lulz. Potok sets things up perfectly, for example how the other team asks for a five minute warm-up just to play poorly to make Reuven’s team think they have it in the bag. But while reading this you already have a feeling that the other team is just tricking them, and they of course will be amazing players. As of now I have learned small details about the characters and their setting. What I do know is that Reuven is a young Jewish boy who goes to a parochial school and seems to have a love for baseball and may possibly be the best player on his team. The next main character, known as Danny Saunders, is a very religious baseball player who lives five blocks away from Reuven yet they have never met. Danny does not like people from other schools; especially people like Reuven. Danny thinks that Reuven is an apikoros, which according to the book is “…a Jew educated in Judaism who denied basic tenets of his faith, like the existence of God, the revelation, [and] the resurrection of the dead.” Reuven was an apikoros to Danny Saunders despite his belief in God and Torah, because he did not have side curls and attended a parochial school where too many English subjects were offered and where Jewish subjects were taught in Hebrew instead of Yiddish. We have also been introduced to a few other characters including, The Coach (Mr. Galanter), Sidney Goldberg, and Davey Cantor. The Coach is a very optimistic person who walks on the balls of his feet and constantly compares the game of baseball to war; leaving not only his players, but the readers to ponder on the question why he was never in the Army. The other two somewhat large characters we have met haven’t really given us many traits. Sidney Goldberg is one of Reuven’s good friends, but not a close friend. Sidney is the shortstop on the baseball team and is very optimistic as well. He is constantly cracking small jokes with Reuven while giving him words of encouragement to keep his head in the game. As for Davey Cantor, he is not an optimistic person, and can be looked at of course, as the opposite…pessimistic. From the start, Davey is trying to convince Reuven that the other team is a group of “murderers” and that they will for sure lose. Davey obviously has no faith in his team whatsoever, but it turns out that he was somewhat right because like he had said they were “murderers” but barely won by one point. This book seems very interesting and I wanted to keep on reading but I figured it would be best if I didn’t.
Now to answer Edwards question. "Why are they in such a rivalry, if they are still part of the same religion." I believe the book answers this question. They are in rivalry because Danny Saunders and the rest of his team believe that if you are not a full on Jew then you are an Apikoros that should burn in hell and that Reuven and the rest of his team go to a parochial school where they dont learn things in Yiddish like they should. I could say more but im pretty tired, ill discuss it tomorrow.
Also, i thought you didnt have internet?
This chapter represents a holy war. I agree with Krazter on the both teams having their strategy when one of them had asked for 5 minutes before the practice in order to give the other team a different point of view because they wanted the other team to think they wouldn't be too much of challenge and for them to go easy on them and they could use this as a advantage. It was a very well thought out move to confuse the other team. This chapter helps us make a better understanding on how the game is truly representing a war. The chapter help us understand more of the whole rivalry that's going on and by telling us how each one is Jewish but yet still very different. Over all I believe this book has a lot more interesting details and i can't wait to find out more.
Ok...so this story takes place in Brooklyn sometime after or during WWII. The story so far details an entire baseball game in the first chapter while introducing all the characters. The narrator is Reuven. He is a Jewish boy. He's not the "traditional" type of Jewish. He's kind of got a modern twist. They don't do a lot of the traditional clothing stuff for one. The baseball team that they play is the traditional Jewish group. They wear all the right stuff & follow the Jewish law and attend the Jewish school. They're really hypocritical and mean (I agree with Ashley about them being mean). Especailly in the game. They say some pretty mean things to Reuven's team. Reuven wants to stick it to the traditional Jewish baseball team and starts to think of the game as a holy war. Reuven kind of chills out a little and reminds himself that this is just a game. Sadly the team loses the game by one point after Reuven tries to be a hero and plays with a bumed wrist. Then he drops the ball and breaks his glasses and a piece of glass gets stuck in his eye. (eww! LOL!) Thats when things started to pick up in my opinion. The end of the game up to the glass in his eye.
The book has a lot of imagery and detail while describing the characters. Can't wait to read the next chapter. Oh wait I read the 1st page of the next chapter. :)
Jack, you’re right, it does become a holy war of sorts. However, you contradict yourself when you then say it symbolizes WWII, which was not a holy war. Then you strayed off topic a bit when you began talking about how everyone wanted “to win.” I would have liked to hear more about the “holy war.” Elena, okay, without descriptions there would be no imagery… I get it… but you can apply that statement to ANY story. Specifics, specifics, specifics, and for goodness sake, stay positive! (By the way, thanks for telling me twice) Ashley, aside from the # of pages, I’m glad you liked it. It really does get more and more interesting as the story moves forward. Good call on the “holy war” but between who? No one has said whose fighting the holy war yet. Edward, finally an answer to the holy war. Now for your answer, they dislike each other because one team is made up of Hassidic Jews (very strict, VERY conservative, ultra-religious, follow the “old” ways) and the other team is more orthodox (Americanized). The Hassids dislike the Orthodox Jews because, in their eyes, they have betrayed their religion. By the way, good answer. Phillip, don’t worry, everything will be okay. Thank you for pointing out what Mr. Galanter adds to the chapter. I agree 100% with you. Katherine, that’s a good call on how Potok creates depth in his characters, as well as how their differences are going to bring them together. The complexity of their relationship is what makes this book so dynamic. I think you’re really going to like it. John, yeah, try not to read ahead. Very nice job on identifying characters and their significance to the game as a whole. You know I think you really hit on something when you pointed out Potok’s linguistic abilities. He has this almost indiscernible ability to put you in the moment. No matter how many times I read this chapter (and book), I’m amazed by the images he is able to put in my head. I mean it’s not like he’s knocking you over the head with a syntactic two by four, but the way he writes is sublime in its simplicity. What can I say about your answer, very thorough, very insightful, very good. Keep up the good work. (PS – Thanks for answering Edward’s question) Dora, I agree that the game, and this chapter, is Potok’s method for allowing those of us uneducated in the ways of Judaism to understand some of the differences that exist WITHIN the religion. Good job. TO EVERYONE, excellent work! Nice first entries. I truly hope you are enjoying the book. See ya tomorrow in class. Oh, by the way, I apologize for any typing errors… I’ve had no power for like 3 hours and it’s hard to see the keys in the dark (not to mention I’m getting squat done for my grad course because I can’t friggin see!!!) Heyyy, wait a sec, Aly showed up. First of all, stop reading. Secondly, you need to write MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
The significance was that it was to show the Americans that even though the Jewish kids did Jewish and English studies all day long that they were still just as athletic as any other American student. But they didn't play baseball! It was softball...which is a girl sport.. haha losers. It was kind of symbolic in the way of WWII and war in general. It is symbolic to this because these kids are trying to prove themselves to a whole different group of kids who do not live their lives like the Jewish kids do. It's almost a battle between two completely different worlds. His description so added to that effect because had their just been a statement saying "we played softball" there would be no significance in it at all, you would be left with too many questions. The narrarator was use to playing second base and had developed an underhand pitch. Sometimes Mr.Galanter would use Goldberg as pitcher, but only in really tight moments which leads you to believe that if they were in a rough patch, Goldberg could get them out of it.
In chapter 1 the baseball or softball game that they are playing is significant because it is symbolic of a war. But this war isn't a regular war. This is a war for racial supremacy, in this case between the die hard Jews and the slightly less fundamental Jews who are more laid back. This war of sorts alludes to WWII where the the Nazis are battling to prove their supremacy over other races. The imagery that Pokos used when describing the situation and the game was used very well. As John said, you could actually visual what was going on, it was very easy to "see" the game. Also in this chapter he introduces some very important characters, like Danny and Reuven, which at this point seem to be in direct opposition of each other. Reuven, the narrator, seems humble yet confident, and encourages his team like he doesn't just want to win. On the other hand, Danny seems cocky and overconfident as well as malicious as he tries to hit the pitchers of the other team.
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